Comments on: New Spiritual Sword a must read http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/ New Testament Christianity in the 21st Century Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Dan Mayfield http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-3844 Dan Mayfield Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:24:50 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-3844 Hi, Jimmy Allen wrote his book on what one needs to know about baptism for it to be valid. It was a pretty weak position from the negative: essentially that unless you have to have perfect knowledge of the purpose of Baptism for it to be valid, you don't have to have any knowledge of baptism's purpose. If you do it, thinking you are already saved, baptism is still effectual. But I believe Allen's was the first step towards the direction you highlight. This unwillingness to take a stand on doctrinal matters is spreading. Mark Henderson at Quail Springs said re: instruments in worship that they had for a long time treated it as a non-issue. Well that just led to the eventual use of instruments - and why not, if it doesn't matter?! With so much ground being given up to the culture, I wondered what would be next. Abortion? Gay marriage? Polygamy? I suppose Baptism is the obvious next thing. Hi,
Jimmy Allen wrote his book on what one needs to know about baptism for it to be valid. It was a pretty weak position from the negative: essentially that unless you have to have perfect knowledge of the purpose of Baptism for it to be valid, you don’t have to have any knowledge of baptism’s purpose. If you do it, thinking you are already saved, baptism is still effectual. But I believe Allen’s was the first step towards the direction you highlight. This unwillingness to take a stand on doctrinal matters is spreading. Mark Henderson at Quail Springs said re: instruments in worship that they had for a long time treated it as a non-issue. Well that just led to the eventual use of instruments – and why not, if it doesn’t matter?! With so much ground being given up to the culture, I wondered what would be next. Abortion? Gay marriage? Polygamy? I suppose Baptism is the obvious next thing.

]]> By: Paula Harrington http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2462 Paula Harrington Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:51:53 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2462 unimmersed Christians?? Sounds like an oxymoron to me :) unimmersed Christians??

Sounds like an oxymoron to me :)

]]> By: mark http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2284 mark Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:10:07 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2284 Matt Oops my response was sent before I could finished new computer different key pad. Matt
Oops my response was sent before I could finished new computer different key pad.

]]> By: mark http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2283 mark Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:37:01 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2283 matt "Do you agree that there is but one baptism" Yes spiritually "God’s quick and powerful word." This is an interesting statement a couple questions was Lydia unsaved as a worshiper of God? What were Gods words? I got the SS I'm not fond of the Fulford response She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. matt

“Do you agree that there is but one baptism”

Yes spiritually

“God’s quick and powerful word.”

This is an interesting statement a couple questions was Lydia unsaved as a worshiper of God? What were Gods words?

I got the SS I’m not fond of the Fulford response

She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

]]> By: Matt Clifton http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2229 Matt Clifton Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:27:07 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2229 WWJD, Hello there, and welcome. Thanks for your comment. <blockquote>The one baptism is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that Jesus baptizes us with, not water baptism. As John the Baptist said, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”</blockquote> This is commonly taught in many of the denominations. However, there is a tough logical problem with the view that the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Matt. 3:11 is the same as the "one baptism" of Eph. 4:5. The baptism of the Holy Spirit spoken of in Matt. 3:11 is definitely seen in Acts 2:1-4 and Acts 10:44-46. But the subsequent baptisms in water (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48) is the baptism of the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20; Mark 16:16). Why is this so? Because the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not performed by the hand of man, but by Jesus Himself. The baptism of the Great Commission is a baptism that Christ commanded men to perform, and therefore cannot be the baptism of the Holy Spirit. See my previous article on this subject for more. http://the7ones.com/2009/02/09/baptism-spirit-or-water/ Thanks, and God bless you. Matt WWJD,

Hello there, and welcome. Thanks for your comment.

The one baptism is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that Jesus baptizes us with, not water baptism. As John the Baptist said, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

This is commonly taught in many of the denominations. However, there is a tough logical problem with the view that the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Matt. 3:11 is the same as the “one baptism” of Eph. 4:5. The baptism of the Holy Spirit spoken of in Matt. 3:11 is definitely seen in Acts 2:1-4 and Acts 10:44-46. But the subsequent baptisms in water (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48) is the baptism of the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20; Mark 16:16).

Why is this so? Because the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not performed by the hand of man, but by Jesus Himself. The baptism of the Great Commission is a baptism that Christ commanded men to perform, and therefore cannot be the baptism of the Holy Spirit. See my previous article on this subject for more.

http://the7ones.com/2009/02/09/baptism-spirit-or-water/

Thanks, and God bless you.

Matt

]]> By: WWJD http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2227 WWJD Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:52:08 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2227 The one baptism is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that Jesus baptizes us with, not water baptism. As John the Baptist said, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” The one baptism is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that Jesus baptizes us with, not water baptism. As John the Baptist said, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

]]> By: Matt Clifton http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2220 Matt Clifton Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:04:40 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2220 Mark, Do you agree that there is but one baptism, as Ephesians 4:5 says? If this is true, then there can be no difference between the baptisms of Samarians and the baptism of Lydia. In Acts 8:16, the people had been "baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus," which is the same thing that was commanded in Acts 2:38. If one fulfills the command in Acts 2:38 (repent and be baptized), he or she receives the promise of Acts 2:38 (remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit). Peter said this promise was to them and their children, and all who are afar off, as many as the Lord God will call. Therefore, since the Samarians and Lydia were definitely in one of these classes, they received the promise after obeying the command, just like those in Acts 2:38. Why did John and Peter have to come to Samaria to give the newly baptized people the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit? Because only the apostles could transfer the miraculous gifts (speaking in tongues, etc.). But the "gift" of the Holy Spirit, which is the indwelling and seal that one receives when entering into the New Covenant through faith, repentance and baptism, is for all who obey Him. The Lord "opening" Lydia's heart does not mean the Holy Spirit acted upon her heart and saved her before she heard and obeyed the gospel. Notice verse 14 says Lydia heard Paul preaching, so the way her heart was opened was through God's quick and powerful word. Mark,

Do you agree that there is but one baptism, as Ephesians 4:5 says? If this is true, then there can be no difference between the baptisms of Samarians and the baptism of Lydia.

In Acts 8:16, the people had been “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus,” which is the same thing that was commanded in Acts 2:38. If one fulfills the command in Acts 2:38 (repent and be baptized), he or she receives the promise of Acts 2:38 (remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit). Peter said this promise was to them and their children, and all who are afar off, as many as the Lord God will call. Therefore, since the Samarians and Lydia were definitely in one of these classes, they received the promise after obeying the command, just like those in Acts 2:38.

Why did John and Peter have to come to Samaria to give the newly baptized people the “gifts” of the Holy Spirit? Because only the apostles could transfer the miraculous gifts (speaking in tongues, etc.). But the “gift” of the Holy Spirit, which is the indwelling and seal that one receives when entering into the New Covenant through faith, repentance and baptism, is for all who obey Him.

The Lord “opening” Lydia’s heart does not mean the Holy Spirit acted upon her heart and saved her before she heard and obeyed the gospel. Notice verse 14 says Lydia heard Paul preaching, so the way her heart was opened was through God’s quick and powerful word.

]]> By: mark http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2210 mark Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:34:19 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2210 Matt "I do not believe the scriptures bear out the idea that there is a “Jewish” or “Gentile” baptism, since there is but one baptism" I don’t want to distract from the article in the SS. But 2 quick scripture I believe shows a the difference in the Jewish Baptism and the Gentile baptism. Acts 8:16 Until that time, none of the people there had received the Holy Spirit. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 16:14 The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. Matt

“I do not believe the scriptures bear out the idea that there is a “Jewish” or “Gentile” baptism, since there is but one baptism”

I don’t want to distract from the article in the SS. But 2 quick scripture I believe shows a the difference in the Jewish Baptism and the Gentile baptism.

Acts 8:16 Until that time, none of the people there had received the Holy Spirit. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:14 The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

]]> By: Matt Clifton http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2199 Matt Clifton Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:24:02 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2199 Mark, There are several things in your post that I would have to discuss with you in order to understand exactly what you mean. However, when you say this: <blockquote>Clearly our baptism is Gentile in nature not Jewish thus we receive the Holy Spirit just as Cornelius did.</blockquote> I do not believe the scriptures bear out the idea that there is a "Jewish" or "Gentile" baptism, since there is but one baptism (Eph. 4:5). Also, the miraculous reception of the Holy Spirit as we see with Cornelius is not the same as receiving the indwelling of the Spirit following baptism as in Acts 2:38. If you would like to discuss any of these matters, just let me know. God bless you! Matt Mark,

There are several things in your post that I would have to discuss with you in order to understand exactly what you mean. However, when you say this:

Clearly our baptism is Gentile in nature not Jewish thus we receive the Holy Spirit just as Cornelius did.

I do not believe the scriptures bear out the idea that there is a “Jewish” or “Gentile” baptism, since there is but one baptism (Eph. 4:5). Also, the miraculous reception of the Holy Spirit as we see with Cornelius is not the same as receiving the indwelling of the Spirit following baptism as in Acts 2:38.

If you would like to discuss any of these matters, just let me know.

God bless you!

Matt

]]> By: mark http://the7ones.com/2009/04/17/new-spiritual-sword-a-must-read/comment-page-1/#comment-2188 mark Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:31:13 +0000 http://the7ones.com/?p=726#comment-2188 I'll read the article later over at my church. But would say without reading the article that such questions are legitimate. Progressive Christianity brings out the truth of the complexity of the scriptures , church tradition, and religious myth. This does not mean that one cannot embrace such beliefs but rather that all things of Spirit of God are assumptions. Now as a coC person I believe in baptism like I believe in marriage it’s something marks the beginning of a relationship. But too baptism like marriage does not define the only types of relations one can have in the Christian life. Clearly our baptism is Gentile in nature not Jewish thus we receive the Holy Spirit just as Cornelius did. What this means is if we die before we get to the water the old superstitions results of where we will end up is debunked by our infantile relation with God. I’ll read the article later over at my church. But would say without reading the article that such questions are legitimate. Progressive Christianity brings out the truth of the complexity of the scriptures , church tradition, and religious myth. This does not mean that one cannot embrace such beliefs but rather that all things of Spirit of God are assumptions. Now as a coC person I believe in baptism like I believe in marriage it’s something marks the beginning of a relationship. But too baptism like marriage does not define the only types of relations one can have in the Christian life. Clearly our baptism is Gentile in nature not Jewish thus we receive the Holy Spirit just as Cornelius did. What this means is if we die before we get to the water the old superstitions results of where we will end up is debunked by our infantile relation with God.

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