1. to turn aside, deviate (from the right way and course)
2. to turn (one’s self) away, to turn away from, keep aloof from one’s society
3. to shun one

lol I don’t think my case needs any help, after all it is the same position Paul held.

Now Dell, you told me “progressives” are open minded and always willing to admit that they don’t have all the answers! Either your staunch claims to being right are what you really feel and you are not really a “progressive,” or “progressives” are not really all that open minded. Which is it?

If I didn’t know you I would say that your mind is made up I ought not confuse you with the facts, but I know you and seriously doubt this is the case. I will take a little time in the next day or so and put a little effort into this. God bless and good night. dell

I’m just reading the Bible and connecting the dots, brother. I have no agenda to either widen fellowship or shrink it. I’ll look forward to hearing from you.

God bless,

Matt

There are very simple and sound arguments based on scripture there, if you will open your mind and heart to the possibility that you may be wrong. After all, isn’t that what you would have me to do?

I am sorry the material I am presenting does not agree with what you have come to believe. Your charges of “preconceived doctrine” still do not hold water, unless you present some scriptural argumentation of your own.

As far as Todd is concerned, I have seen his article, but have not read it. I am currently focused on my own study, when I get time I will read and respond to his comments. I don’t think diverting the argument to Todd will help your case any.

God bless,

Matt

Instead of offering repeated charges of “poor scholarship,” perhaps you could put forth some substantial arguments to prove your point. Based on what has been presented so far, I do not believe your position holds water.

God bless you.

Matt

Yes the same standards that apply in Corinth will apply in Rome. You well know we cannot go beyond what is written. The people you do not wish to describe with the description I used above continually make this mistake.

Good, I’m glad we agree that we must take scripture only to find these standards. Both the extreme left and extreme right make this mistake, Dell. We all have to strive to stay right down the center of God’s truth.

The problem that existed in Corinth concerning the man with his fathers wife isn’t anything akin to the problem that exists in Romans. We both know this. To lump these two together is extremely poor scholarship.

Well, what we know existed in Rome were teachers who were causing division in the church and placing stumbling blocks in front of the brethren, enticing them with flattering speech and deceiving them. From these types Paul said to avoid. I think a pretty good case has been made that Paul means withdrawal of fellowship.

In Corinth, there obviously existed some cases of this same type of avoidance, but mostly on the grounds of unrepentant sinners in the church, namely those practicing extortion, idolatry, sexual immorality, drunkenness, and covetousness. Paul said to separate from these as well. I have never disagreed that the case with the man who had his father’s wife was not an extreme case. This is why Paul goes into detail. But just because he does not go into detail with the other cases does not mean similar action should not be taken. What was causing Paul to react strongly to this case is that the Corinthians had taken no action to discipline the man! They had disobeyed his previous instructions to them not to associate with the sexually immoral, so now he is forcing a resolution for the good of the church and the sinner.

Insults of “poor scholarship” aside, if Paul teaches the same things in all the churches (1 Cor. 4:17), with which you agree, then we have to admit that any of the cases mentioned in the Roman letter or the Corinthian letter would have been enforced in either congregation. Or should have been enforced. The problem in Corinth in 1 Cor. 5 is that the Corinthians were not enforcing what they had already been taught.

That disagreement stated, I suspect we will agree most of the time on the remainder of the Scripture you will use. God bless dell

Thanks. Still have a long way to go to fill the study out.

Matt